--> Azrael (Azrael@212.207.125.14) has joined #Hermes
--> Bake (shawn@208.148.40.33) has joined #Hermes
<Bake> hey, how's it going?
--- Azrael gives channel operator status to Bake
<Azrael> Good thanks :)
<Azrael> Thought this would be as good a place as any for discussions
<Bake> makes sense to me  =)
<Azrael> So.. :)
<Bake> where to start, huh?  =)
<Azrael> Yeah, exactly..
<Azrael> Well I suppose the first question is.. do we make several panels like the current hermes -Hotmail one, for very very basic use on places like Yahoo etc etc? Or go right into the deep end?
<Azrael> Or perhaps just one panel that has hotmail, yahoo and a few others on?
<Bake> Well, if we are going to do it, let's do it right.  Make it fully integrated with mail/news...
<Bake> or that main webmails out there...
<Azrael> *nods*
<Bake> I'm assuming Hotmail/Netscape/Yahoo/etc. are possible to setup using mail/news somehow, right?
<Azrael> Just that whereas I can write html and maybe even some js to do a panel.. I know I can't do any fancy stuff and integrate it into mail/news unless I do some rapid learning :/
<Azrael> No idea
<Azrael> I can use Hotmail from yahoo.. there is a httmail cgi type thing...
<Bake> that's the snag that I see... integrating, but it Outlook does it, then we can do it too. I have little knowledge on integrating too, but I will hopefully be learning here shortly
<Azrael> Well.. an .asp rather
<Azrael> *nods*
<Azrael> Is the mail/news code that needs to be hacked written in XUL?
<Bake> you know, I d/l the source the other day, but I haven't even looked at it yet.  But as far as that question at the moment, I'm not sure.
<Azrael> *nods*
<Azrael> ZUL is like xml right? So a slightly easier for me to learn than other code
<Bake> I'm sure we can ask in #mozillazine and find out real quick
<Azrael> There's the answer :/
<Bake> so it must be then...
<Bake> hmmmm
<Azrael> Well.. the front end is anyway... so all we need to do is write a backend to hermes, and then hack the mail/news front end to include it.
<Azrael> Sounds easy already :)
<Bake> easier than what I originally thought...
<Azrael> Heck, by the end of the night we may have broken it down into 3 easy steps that'll take 5 minutes each :)
<Bake> We can only hope  =)
<Azrael> *chuckles*
<Bake> But we need to figure out which webmails we want to include... there are a lot of them...
<Azrael> Well.. if the backend were to be cross-platform.. it'd need to be written in what? xml and js? Or summit complicated?
<Azrael> Bake: yeah.. a list would help.. well... actually .. ideally not.. perhaps we need to make a program that just accepts a certain few variables and just uses those to process data?
<Azrael> So you inputted your webserver url, your login and password.. and then Hermes did the rest :/
<Bake> hmmmm... I like that idea
<Azrael> Hmm you're right.. it'd need understanding each one seperatly :/
<Azrael> As each would operate differently :/
<Bake> yes, but possible...
<Azrael> But like the search plugins.. the search panel is a stand alone, and search-engine plugins are written seperatly
<Azrael> But would need to be more sophisticated... hmm.. have you written a search-plugin or seen what they are like?
<Bake> never written, but I looked at one once... 
<Bake> Let's just say I didn't understand it very well...
<Azrael> ALl it is is a name, a url for the search cgi script, then a bit of data of which bits of HTML the relevant data to grab is in.
<Azrael> Webmail could be similar, a url to the asp/cgi or whatever, gaps to put in login/passwd, and html fragments to look for to grab out the mail lines of whatever..
<Azrael> That way new webmails could be added easily.. rather than a seperate backend for each
<Bake> I would assume, naturally they are very similar...
<Azrael> Well.. MS designed hotmail to be useable from Outlook I expect.. the others maybe didn't...
<Bake> most likely, but we should be able to find a way to use it too.
<Azrael> Even if it's just download the relevant webpage and rip the HTML out into a new interface
<Bake> yes, I'm sure it might not be possible to intergrate totally into mail/news, but if we have it login for them from a sidebar, it would be pretty nice.
<Bake> But Netscape Webmail should be able to since N6 does it... 
<Bake> but they use AIM somehow
<Azrael> *noddles*
<Azrael> If we were to use the searchplugin method where it scanned for certain html and ripped bits out.. we'd be at hostage of Hotmail etc changing their design ...
<Bake> yes, but how often will they change their design? 
<Bake> I doubt very often..
<Azrael> Well.. once _after_ hermes was in use by several hundred peope would be a bit of a poo poo
<Bake> true.  But once it is up and running, it shouldn't be hard to change it if needed.
<Azrael> True.. perhaps even like the search plugins there could be an inbuilt update tag so that every 5 days it updated the code from hermes.mozdev
<Bake> yes...
* Bake hopes your logging this =)
<Azrael> LOL
<Azrael> I was about to ask if you were!!
<Bake> haha, oops
<Bake> =P
<Azrael> I can do it, no prob :)
<Azrael> And if you have no objections I'll add it to a 'discussion' page on hermes.mozdev
--- Azrael has changed the topic to: Discussion about Hermes http://hermes.mozdev.org
<Bake> no, no objections from me
<Azrael> cool
<Bake> How simple was the Hotmail one currently on hermes now?
<Bake> to implement that is...
<Azrael> piss easy
<Azrael> Want me to explain it?
<Bake> sure
<Azrael> goto http://hermes.mozdev.org/hermes-hotmail
<Azrael> Then view the source
<Azrael> All the panel does is call up that webpage
<Azrael> And the code to get the page into a pnale is a little js one on the installation page
<Bake> geez... that does seem pretty simple
<Azrael> And all I did was goto the hotmail login page, and swipe the HTML from there
<Bake> nice... 
<Azrael> thanks
<Azrael> It originally started out at http://dextra-dei.virtualave.net/az/
<Bake> hmmmm... 
<Azrael> that's just my webpage for personal use, and I wanted a hotmail login on it
<Azrael> Yes.. any other webmail can be implemented in the same way :)
<Bake> yes, that's what I was thinking, but of course we want to take it further.
<Azrael> Now.. imagine a list of buttons on the side, and lots of webmail login boxes superimposesed but visibility:hidden
<Azrael> then click the button you want, that flips the visibility of that one to 'visible' then you login.
<Azrael> That's how I'd extend the current one
<Bake> yes, that seems very reasonable, and it would be a less messy interface
<Azrael> But still goes no way towards an integrated interface :/
<Bake> no, but that is really step 3  =)
<Azrael> And makes the panel take longer to load. Hmm. ideally they'd download the panel properly and view it off their drive.. haven't worked out how to do that with the panel yet
<Bake> that will take me time to think how it really needs to be implemented.
<Azrael> *nods*
<Bake> panel loading time... drat.  Forgot about that.  
<Azrael> drb said to me when hermes was still in concept that he was interested... I belive he wrote the search tab.. not 100% sure there
<Azrael> panel oading time of very little if the html is local
<Bake> if local... 
<Bake> drb would be valuable to us then...
<Azrael> Now.. if I knew how to make it into a self instaling .xpi :)
<Bake> hehehe, if only  =)  In time...
<Azrael> I'm sure it's not that hard in the scheme of things
<Bake> no, not at all... It's just figuring it out the first time.  =)
<Azrael> I guess the best thing to do would write this panel again with more options, as I suggested, and then release that as another trial concept relase, but advertise it better to get people using it (need about 5 different webmails.. more???) and advertise the project, try and get more help
<Azrael> Hmm... then again.. what 'help' is needed depends on what we need done and if we can do that ourselves :/
<Bake> yes, and see how interested other people are in it's existance
* Azrael noddles
<Azrael> Now one thing, you may not have noticed.. umm.. actually.. do you have a hotmail account? (I am assuming you do)
<Bake> yes
<Azrael> launch Moz.. the mail/news bit.. and the hermes tab is in there, punch in your details.. does it work?
<Bake> yes, it opens another nav window
<Azrael> Oh.. doesn't work for me :/
<Bake> haha
<Bake> what's it do for you?
<Azrael> But we need to know names of window.. from the nav window sidebar.. the view area is called 'content' I wonder if on the mail/news those windows have different names
<Azrael> for me does nothing at all.. so far
<Azrael> Do you have integration turned on? What platform?
<Bake> yes, integration turned on win2k sp1
<Azrael> hmm
<Azrael> I am Win98 integration not turned on
<Bake> I wouldn't think that would be the problem... hmmm
<Bake> but I've seen more messed up things
<Azrael> *noddles*
<Azrael> What other webmail accounts do you have?
<Azrael> Hmm... the sign out and the hermes link both open new windows.. but the login button doesn't
<Bake> ummm, I have 3, I think... hotmail, netscape webmail, and myrealbox. But myrealbox is an imap capable webmail account.
<Azrael> *noddles*
<Azrael> So just Netscape Webmail to trial...
<Azrael> I have hotmail x3 ... and a usa.com
<Azrael> Still.. don't actually need one to make a login box :)
<Bake> yes, that is true... 
<Bake> of course, I can always get a bunch of trial accounts  =0
<Bake> er, =)
<Bake> netscape webmail is pretty weird, the login and all that. It includes the netcenter thing. Which might be a pain
<Azrael> strange.. I had the idea of billions of trial accounts :)
<Bake> oh no, thinking alike already!
<Azrael> How about we make them: user '**********' passwd '**********'  ?? :)
<Azrael> oo on #mozillazine .. hear they called drb the links panel guy
<Bake> sounds good to me...
* Bake jots that down
<Azrael> I think that's prolly what I heard.. not the search panel guy
<Azrael> Perhaps that bit should be edited ouit of the log before posting :)
<Bake> yes  =)
<Bake> too bad drb isn't on now...
<Azrael> Yeah :)
<Azrael> Still.. I'd feel better actually coming up with more useable visible stuff before asking for help in a bigger way than I have so far
<Azrael> I feel as if I am taking advantage :/
<Bake> We need to make the low-end version and work up from there. 
<Bake> I think that is the way to get people interested rather than working on it secretly.
<Azrael> *noddles*
<Azrael> Absolutly
<Azrael> So.. should the current release be numbered at all? 0.1 ? something better?>
<Bake> yeah, 0.1, why not?  It's a start... everything has to start somewhere.
<Bake> Look at mozilla  =)
* Azrael grins
<Azrael> Wondered about the versioning scheme 0.1 or 0.1.1
<Bake> Well, I would think it's 0.1.1
<Bake> that's how I'd refer to it...
<Azrael> And then 0.1.x for the panel versions.. and hopefully 0.2.x for either much much more features or some type of integration?
<Bake> yes, that would make the most sense.  Major updates/upgrades change from 0.1.x to 0.2.x  minor upgrades 0.1.1 to 0.1.2
<Azrael> Or perhaps singular login panel is 0.1.x and addition of more webmail types to the panel is 0.2.x then integration is 0.3.x ? :/ gets the final number bigger :)
<Bake> Or we can make them up as we go  =)   
<Azrael> yay.. perhaps start at 7.3 ?
<Bake> why not?  =P   
* Azrael will have to tidy up the code on the hotmail one :)
<Bake> and then go to 5.9 on the next release
<Azrael> with the final all singing all dancing one as 0.0 ?
<Bake> yep
<Bake> haha
<Azrael> perhaps cutting this out of the log too so people don't think we're mad
<Bake> or insane
<Bake> =)
<Azrael> hehehe
<Bake> woo hoo, so V0.1.1 is done  =)
<Azrael> hehe.. well.. technically.. yes :)
<Bake> I'm going to run out for a little while, I'll be back in a bit.
--- Bake is now known as Bake-Away
<Azrael> Oki-doki!! :)